This discussion is going on in Finnish here at Vendeta's blog. It encouraged me to finally write this post I've been planning for a while now, as there's a bunch of common arguments nicely summarized. For the non-Finnish ones out there - the summary so far: Vendeta wrote that she swears by H&M, and that many "quality" items are in fact no better. The comments are divided into 2 parties:
The H&M haters:
The H&M lovers:
I can accept some arguments from both sides. If you're immune to the lure of H&M and cheapo shopping in general, I say: great! That probably helps you to have a much more sustainable lifestyle. I, however, am not immune. I can totally feel the pain of one commenter who says s/he can't possibly buy just one sweater in ten years time.
My solution is thrifting which is the way for me to get things a bit more ethically, and also much cheaper. In fact, when I go to a H&M, I find the stuff awfully expensive! Still I get better quality. The great big pro of vintage is that it's re-recyclable, unlike many H&M stuff. So, if you are at all bitten by consumerism or just plain a fashion enthusiast, this is a viable option for you.
However I would not want to appear morally smug because I thrift rather than go to H&M, first of all because it is true that I'm hardly perfect. No, I don't think that if you can't do everything right, you might just as well do everything wrong. But there is no reason for me to feel like I'm any better than those who buy at H&M. Perhaps they're doing their share in some other ways, in other areas of life. And I know the mindset too well to judge - the cheap treats are sometimes hard to resist. What does make me curious is that some people won't even consider the thrift option. Well, I guess there's something I just can't relate to *shrugs*. But, admittedly, it would probably be very hard for me to give up central heating, running water, and flying, among other things - quite simply because it's not convenient for me. And if I had to pick just one thing for everyone to quit, it would be flying and not high street shopping!
Styles-wise, I actually think H&M does have nice looking stuff. That is not the problem with them. There's fun things indeed, and I am not worried about people looking like clones because they shop at H&M and other high street chains. In fact, it's unreasonable to say everybody should dress very originally. There's plenty of people who just don't express themselves via their outfits. Many even aren't visually inclined at all. That's fine - they probably express themselves in other ways. Moreover, I do think H&M clothes can be remixed in original ways.
The big no-no for me is the quality. It just makes me sad. I have bought 100% wool knits at H&M, and those are well worth the €'s I paid for them. I have also bought plain T-shirts, tights, and underwear - stuff that's hard to get at thrifts. Everything I can thrift I try to avoid getting at retail, especially because I don't need anything, everything I buy is just treats. And the ethical side of H&M and the likes does worry me. It's not all black and white - it's true that the workers in the factories need jobs - but still, I'd rather consider other options. Like, giving some money to programs that create better jobs for those people.
To sum up, H&M and the likes is something I personally try to avoid, and these days mostly also succeed in avoiding. But also I fail to see them as the devil. I don't expect as heated a discussion as over at Vendeta's but would love to hear your views on this, as always!
Thursday, November 1, 2007
The H et M issue
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10 comments:
Very interesting, thoughtful post on the subject (as usual! :). I was recently at H&M, and while looking for clothes (and yes, buying), I started to wonder about the whole sustainable/ethical side of shopping there. I have been returning to thrifting a lot more in the past year, and trying to center my wardrobe about my thrift/vintage purchases. I have an issue with certain aspects of the mass-fashion industry; particularly the problem of sweat shop labor. That being said, I still have to shop at places like H&M (and Target and WalMart, here in the US) because I cannot afford the likes of American Apparel. Because my "basics" (plain tshirts, the occasional pair of jeans, undergarments and some shoes) tend to be worn through very quickly, and I sometimes require colors/fits that I can't thrift.
I think its a problem I'll face for awhile. I still haven't settled it in my mind! I'm not totally against mass retailers, I just have some problems with them. And I can't afford to live a fully sustainable lifestyle, nor do I really have the time to devote to that kind of commitment!
Anyway, thanks for putting your thoughts up here! I am always interested in hearing other people's takes on this issue. :)
A very well thought out post. I do appreciate that HM brings real style to more people, and encourages experimentation, but the idea of 'disposable' clothing is awful. I remember reading an article where Helena Christensen talked about how H&M gets better the more you wash and wear it. I think that is true for their natural fibers, which take on some life and character as they wear. Not true for their cheaper synthetics, which always look horrible.
My comments were taken really wrong… I wasn’t ”attacking” Vendeta or H&M in any way. My point was meant to get people to think why? Why something is the way it is in the fashion industry (Over all, not just with H&M – I’m for example really pleased with their organic cotton clothes. None of the girls however took up that little fact… and again I’d like to ask again why?)? – Can’t help thinking, ‘cause so many reacted to my comments, that maybe I woke up someone’s conscience…?
I know someone who doesn't like thrifting, admittedly she's a woman in her sixties so a bit set in her ways and neither follower of fashion or a frequent consumer of new new new! clothes anyway... but her reason is - well, it's not really a "reason", it's more of an instinctive reaction of "ew, someone has been wearing this!" For me, this initial feeling of ew! was something I grew out of naturally as I got used to thrifting, but it's, I guess, not something you can simply logic someone out of. :)
The discussion at Vendeta's blog was interesting, but also a bit amusing, especially when someone piped in with a comment, saying that someone probably died making H&M clothes and that Vendeta probably didn't care because all she wanted was cheap clothes. At that point, I smelled the juicy scent of a witch-hunt, hence my Marie Antoinette inspired comment...
We don't have H&M here, but I do shop at places like Zara, Mango, Vero Moda, Seppälä... which is the same, in principle. (I have to agree with Vendeta that Esprit has overpriced (in the sense that their production probably cost no more than, say, H&M's) clothes that look and feel ugly, shapeless and cheap. Heh.) OTOH, I do try to do my little bit in other ways (recycle; walk or use public transportation). I agree with you that everyone should figure out how they can help the environment and do their own bit, but that bit isn't necessarily the same for everyone. The H&M-bashers had a point, but the holier-than-thou attitude is something that hardly ever helps to convince someone or gain followers... And again, they were commenting on a small chunk of someone's situation, knowing nothing of the whole - maybe Vendeta is a very mindful and environmentally conscious person in other ways, that the bashers themselves are not.
I just love to read your thought provoking posts! I read that post you're referring and I have to admit my first thoughts were something like "yeah right, generation H et M is talking again" and I didn't bother to comment in one way or the other.
I have to say I know only a handful of women who frequently shop at H&M (or other similar cheap chain shops) and still succeed in dressing interestingly. But that's not the issue for me, although that is one of the reasons why I nowadays avoid all cheap chain stores whenever it is possible.
When it comes to cheap clothing chains, the idea of fast fashion is really the thing that rubs me the wrong way. I can't understand why we should consume ludicrous amounts only because something's so cheap. If the problems caused by sweat shops, child labour and repressing underrepresented countries (and mainly their women and children) seems too distant for us, what about environmental issues? I'm stunned that we still don't seem to understand that we are wasting our nature resources by excess consumption.
Actually, I got shocked today when I realised how much unnecessary clothes I have. Although I'm a hard boiled feminist I think there's something us women could learn from men (please, take this as a huge generalisation). For example, my other half has only the basics in his wardrobe but he still succeeds in dressing and looking great. He buys new things only when he really needs them and that makes me look at him with respect. I'm not that kind of conscious consumer yet but I strive my best becoming one.
What a great post, I love it when the discussion is encouraged rather than getting offensive from other people's opinions. My problems towards consuming are not merely linked to H&M - it's more about our ways to consume in general. The habit of buying too much and not considering the life line of the product before or after we hold on to it.
Even though there are ecologically produced products available, the truth is that we can only make a difference by consuming less. That's why I don't find poor excuses like " I can't buy just one sweater in ten years time" valid. Please! You can make a difference without pushing it into something ridiculous. I wish people would at least recognise there is something wrong in our consume obsessed society and not be in denial. I guess it's an easy way out for most.
I did enjoy this post. As you probably gather from my infrequent WR -ing I thrift and by vintage at least 75 % of my wardrobe. My youngest child I thrift Over 90% of her wardrobe,only shoes sox,and panties do I buy retail. It is very interesting with my 11 year old. The recycled clothing percentage drops significantly. I dress her in a school uniform,and she is a size that is hard to thrift for. Therefore,her uniform ,jeans ,undies ,sox,and shoes are all bought retail. She does find "fun" clothes at tr thrift(her luck is sometimes better than mine),but she is also in love with a clothing establishment called "Delias". I allow her to spend her money there.
As for H&M we do not have one in Dallas! Hard to believe huh? I must admit ,I would be tempted if we had one ,merely because I am curious!
Thanks for all the comments, people. But hey - where's the big pro-H&M crowd :)?
Yes, our consumption habits have gone wacky, and when I say "our" I do think of myself as part of the problem! But it is also very hard to be a Western citizen and live a fully sustainable lifestyle, H&M is hardly the only peril. That's why I give credit to everyone who's willing to take some baby steps.
About the debate and how to convince others... I do think it's important to realize that people in general want no evil. If they're treated as fundamentally benevolent, they will be much more likely to live up to that, too.
There's no H&M in Seattle but you can bet I went when I was recently in Europe.
Despite my eagerness to go, though, I was *really* disappointed by the quality of just about everything available. And having bought cheap knits at H&M equivalents here in the U.S. (Forever 21, for example), I have to say I'd rather thrift these items where possible since they pill up so quickly.
Of course, tees are hard to thrift. Most people where them out until they fall apart. If I didn't hate the misogynistic message of American Apparel, and how disgusting their CEO is, I'd definitely shop there.
I thrift as much as possible but as others said, it's hard with certain basic items. A conundrum all around but a great post that really tackles the issue in a well-rounded way.
A few years ago, I worked at an H&M for about a month and my impression of the company was alright. As far as corporate retailers go, I think they are trying to be good. They shipped most of their products in bins that are reused instead of cardboard boxes and if I remeber correctly they didn't packaged things with too much plastic. Also,they had inspectors do surprise check ups on factories that produce their merchandise. Last time Iwas there, I saw they had a line that's made from organic cotton but it was a little pricier than the regular items.
Most of the time I go to my friend's second hand store but when I want trendier items I prefer H&M.
isara :)
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